Lwemiyaga County MP Theodore Ssekikubo. PHOTO/ FILE
How is the process of gathering signatures so far?
This is the sixth day [Tuesday, May 28] since we started gathering signatures for censuring the four back bench commissioners in Parliament, and like any other process, it can’t be smooth sailing because it’s turbulent with hurdles.
But I also think that is the easiest motion that has ever gone through this process. Remember we had one to recall Parliament on the oil matters and it was tough because by then we were set against the entire government and our view then was, the oil agreements were shrouded in secrecy and we demanded that there should be a clear policy and laws to guide the oil exploration and extraction.
That was an uphill task. But for this one, after five days we had already hit 100 signatures and I know we shall sail through.
How much time do you have to make sure that you have the required one third (177) of the signatures?
Fortunately, this motion is passed under Rule 110 which is not limited by time, unlike other motions that you would pass to censure a minister that you would have only two weeks to gather the signatures.
It is said the Speaker chaired the meeting where the commissioners were awarded the Shs1.7b. How easy is it going to be for you to pass this motion?
From the onset, our motion has been clear and it is touching the four commissioners of Parliament, and not the Speaker per se.
But it is said the Speaker chaired that meeting...
Yes, we are alive to that but in our audit trail, the amount being questioned is the Shs1.7b, but incidentally the Speaker did not partake of this amount. We only see then LoP [Leader of Opposition in Parliament Mathias Mpuuga] getting Shs500m and the other three commissioners taking Shs400m each.
Our motion is straight to the point and clear. There are other commissioners such as the Deputy Speaker, the minister of Finance and the Prime Minister; all these sit on the Commission but we are not after them, we are going after the four.
You say we. Who are the other people running this motion?
I am the mover and the rest are seconders. They include MPs Ronald Kasolo (Iki-Iki), Alion Odria (Aringa South), Sarah Opendi (Tororo Woman), Joseph Ssewungu (Kalungu West), Patrick Nsamba Oshabe (Kassanda North), Rose Obigah (Terego Woman), and many others.
You have tried to raise these matters on the floor of Parliament and witnessed opposition from some MPs. How are you going to handle this to make sure that it goes through?
Initially, the procedure we had adopted was to seek the consent or the indulgence of the Speaker because she has far and wide-ranging powers.
So we were seeking her indulgence to have the matter put on the order paper and debated, but we were not allowed to do the same. But the procedure we have now taken is self-executing in that after we have the requirements, we file a notice to the Speaker and on the day of sitting, it takes precedence over other matters.
How sure are you that you will have quorum for this matter?
We shall be role calling and I know Members of Parliament shall be present because they know that they are not doing this for themselves; they know that the voters are closely monitoring these issues.
I was in the 10th Parliament when we made a mistake of removing the presidential age limit from the Constitution where upon about 90 percent of the members were voted out. So even now entering our fourth year, we have a jinx.
Every Parliament has its own turning point and in this, this is the one and it is to show where you stand on corruption. Not that they love us, or that they fear the Speaker – because what we have heard is that the accused commissioners and their sympathisers have successfully looped in the Speaker. They are telling her that these people are after you.
They are now using blackmail; saying those ones have money, this one divorced the husband; so and so urinates on bed, and so on. They tried tactics of using someone in the NRM parliamentary caucus who issued a message on our WhatsApp platform, saying ‘NRM is telling you that don’t sign, wait until they give their position on this matter’. But I am a member of CEC and national conference.
They have also created fictitious accounts on Twitter (now X) saying I have received Shs50m so that I can cause discontent among the members. But I don’t possess an account on X. They sent it on our Government Chief Whip platform, but they are using underhand methods. The President has not been sucked into this.
I have heard that there is a looming NRM caucus meeting to discuss this matter. Where does that leave the motion?
The caucus cannot come in to interfere with the process of Parliament. That will be very wrong. So I am not seeing the caucus sitting because of this matter; maybe other issues. NRM’s hallmark has been clean leadership, accountability and transparency. Now when you convene a caucus to settle efforts aimed at bringing accountability, it becomes a disservice.
You were in the Parliaments that removed term and age limits. Do you think censuring parliamentary commissioners over alleged corruption could also be turning point?
The intensity may not be the same, but for me this is an opportunity for the Parliament to self-reinvent and put a positive image and inculcate confidence into Ugandans. We need to show that Parliament is the first to promote zero tolerance to corruption.
At party level, the National Unity Platform (NUP) recalled their commissioner. We have not seen your party, NRM, do the same yet it has the majority vote in Parliament
The motion in itself would sound like an indictment on the party because three out of the four [commissioners] are [NRM] party members and the question is...since these Parliament exhibitions started, what did you do? You have the Government Chief Whip who is the minister for parliamentary affairs, was he alive to this?
To begin with, we dropped our guard as NRM. Something is terribly wrong in NRM. For the Opposition, they delayed on this matter and we hope if they were vigilant they would have been on the forefront. But we thank those who are the face from the Opposition on this matter.
We look at some countries like South Africa where their speaker stepped aside as a court process about corruption started. Should Uganda borrow a leaf?
Once you raise South Africa as a country, we feel more ashamed. It is a young democracy but they are doing things right. Number two, Parliament of Uganda has been so personalised. You cannot impeach the Speaker by implication, that is why we are labouring to explain to many people that this motion has nothing to do with the Speaker. The Speaker is like you and me and one among equals, but Members of Parliament feel inferior.
Parliament has been emasculated in the sense that the individual and personal favours from the Speaker to an individual has become institutionalised as the modus operandi.
Look at it this way, we had the late [former speaker] Jacob Oulanyah who after less than a year passed on, this country moved on. So members must extricate themselves from that captivity to think that without the Right Honourable Anita Among, there will be no Parliament.
Blackmail:
They are now using blackmail; saying those ones have money, this one divorced the husband; so and so urinates on bed, and so on. They tried tactics of using someone in the NRM parliamentary caucus who issued a message on our WhatsApp platform, saying ‘NRM is telling you that don’t sign, wait until they give their position on this matter’.
But I am a member of CEC and national conference.
They have also created fictitious accounts on Twitter (now X) saying I have received Shs50m so that I can cause discontent among the members. But I don’t possess an account on X. They sent it on our Government Chief Whip platform, but they are using underhand methods. The President has not been sucked into this.
